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Randall

There is more to melee tactics that doing damage. However, these rules do not stop you from making "causing damage" your character's priority if that what you wish. You just attack and don't use combat maneuvers at all.

However, here are some of the things that have been done with combat maneuvers since we started using this rule:

* Fighters shoving monsters into the area where the fireball spell a magic-user is casting from a scroll will go off

* knocking the wand out of a enemy wizard's hand.

* shoving the monster fighting a thief into melee range of a fighter

* knocking a magic sword out of the fighter's hand and another fighter grabbing it to use against the original wielder. (N.B. This did not work as planned as the sword was chaotic and the fighter who grabbed it was lawful.)

None of these combat maneuvers did any damage, but they sure changed the tactical situation to be more in favor of the PCs.

porphyre77

It seems to me that they'd have to be damned cool maneuvers to be worth losing out on damage even on a crit.

Right. That's the reason I don't like the logic behind "called shots" for manoeuvres (i-e: roll with a penalty): I figure that passing the opportunity to inflict damage is enough of a penalty.

Rachel Ghoul

It seems to me that they'd have to be damned cool maneuvers to be worth losing out on damage even on a crit.

porphyre77

If you use a attack role with some kind of "melée bonus", the simplest way to adjudicate combat manoeuvers -imho- is opposing rolls. Both attacker and défendant roll 1d20 + melee bonus. If the attacker's roll is greater than the defendant's the stunt is succesful; if lower, it fails. Done!
If you want to save one roll, then just have the attacker's make a roll with a target number of 10+defendant's melee bonus.